Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: Hot Thread! [Re: grames] #14322 - 04/04/02 01:03 AM Edit Reply Quote

Dear Grames, My post was a reply to your post saying "... seeking what ATMAN is! What is it composed of and its responsibilities... its Savta,rajo tamo gunas!" That's why I talked about the attributive aspects. But I think you already guessed that, haha. Maya is not the power that determines what direction we are going. As I said elsewhere, it is our (un)conditioned Atman! Maya is the creational changing aggregate phenomenon (panchabhutani in the sense of matter changing from plasmatic into gaseous into fluid into solid by heating, and vice versa). Atman is reacting upon the changes, and when identifying with it is called Vasana. The Atman may be self-conscious and then can dictate the (given) changing Prakrta. Atman may be half-conscious and then it's half-half. But when Atman is not self-conscious = fully aware of the Purusha-self as unchanging reality, then the Prakrta is still controlled by Atman, but then the conditioned qualities of Atman are in charge: This Atman acts and reacts according to the identificated qualities of Prakrta, which change constantly. Now Prakrta is always working, it has its own balance (of de-ficiency and proficiency) and automatical functions (the body and planets move, and 'live' anyway with a tranquille observing Purusha). But the moment the awareness of a Atman with Jiiva interferes= can make decisions, then we can make changes (within the Prakrta regularities). Atman can decide to act and react, Jiiva is just relatively passive in this. If we don't decide to be in charge, we are still somehow in charge: we then make our (pre)conditioned qualities the masters of decision. These (pre)conditioned qulities are unsettled (non-neutralized) experiences of the Jiivatman. About Vinaire's question Pure Atman is one, but when identifying with/in changing Jiiva, it becomes relatively numerous. Every relative part has then its own relatively narrow awareness. The more identification in that Pravrtti process, the more relative distance between every relative narrowed awareness (atman part) and the more relative solidification (jiiva part), which gives numerous bodies with separate Atman awareness. The separateness is in the identification of Atman only, which is self-conscious, achieved. That is Varga=separateness from the verbal root vrj. Apa-varga (and not a-pavarga) means apa=away from, from the Varga. Varga gives exclusiveness and oppositioning and thus grieve and apavarga inclusiveness and thus harmonizing and neutralizing and thus Supreme Ananda.. Generally speaking I try to use the words in their most basic Sanskrit root meanings. of course these words have secondary and tertiary interpretational meanings, which we find in the commentaries on various Sutras, etc. Those meanings I don't want to touch, I respect them. What I try to avoid is the moral aspect: I don't want to denote what is good or bad. I just try to explain the relative relations and the relativeness in the created effect. Note I forgot one very important aspect: Physical deficiency. Atman is in charge to decide what to do with the Jiiva aspect. The Jiiva aspect (physical) is a very delicate aspect. Some say that the Jiiva is formed according to the pre- (before birth) or post-(after death) )conditioned identifications of Atman, stored as memories (Smrti). Whatever is the base for forming the Jiiva, we should never apply morality to that, at least this is my own understanding. Confessing that my medical knowledge is very limited, I can say only this much, that the moment Atman 'breathes' in a given Jiiva, then the most normal thing is to accept any child as it is. (without even thinking that it is because of bad Karma. This is one of the reasons why I don't use the word karma with a moral flavour) Edited by Ishwa on 04/04/02 01:33 AM (server time).