Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: Who are the Aryans - Who else but we [Re: venky] #12895 - 03/03/02 12:18 PM Edit Reply Quote

quote Venkat If you accepts only the vedas as being the most important defining characteristic of being Aryan, do you then repudiate the later changes in Hinduism which make us anything but "Aryan"? Do you accept the non vedic Gods like Shiva and his linga, Krishna the enemy of the Vedic Gods and temple and idol worship which are alien to the veda? Dear, Venkat. To my knowledge Shiva as Krishna is a Vedic name. Some Khilas to the RigVeda Samhita, the Shivasamkalpa Suktas, are part of the Vedic tradition. The Shivasankalpa Sukta is again back in the Shukla YajurVeda 34-1 to 6. Shiva as a God has just like Vishnu adopted many features of their predecessors Rudra and Indra respectively. We can see a gradual development from Old Vedic customs around Mitra and Varuna and somewhat later towards Dyau-Surya-Savitr to the Middle Vedic customs around predominately Varuna and Indra and in remoter areas Rudra, towards later Vedic period in which Indra is the main Deva. After the Vedic period Vishnu, also a Vedic name takes over the features of Indra (blue chest of Indra for sky). The Krishnaite stories indicate the gradual increase of power of Vishnu. In remoter areas Rudra becomes more affused with Shiva. Krishna himself is a Vedic name, even mentioned in the RigVeda, but not identical with the later hero. Harita Krishna (Devakiputra) is mentioned as the pupil of Ghora Angirasa, a Vedic teacher. I doubt him to ben the hero, because Vasudeva Krishna is much later, in the Brahmana Age far later than Rishis like Aitareya Mahidasa and Vajasaneya Yajnavalkya, who came after the Old Vedic Ghora Angirasa. I think that even Gopala Krishna, the son of Nanda and Yashoda is another person. The best way to see the development from Vedic Age to classical Gupta Age is to study the Mahabharata and the Puranas. The Mahabharata started as Vyasa's 'Jaya' of 8800 shlokas. When it became another Vyasa's 'Bharata' of 24.000, if we can rely on the first shlokas of the recent Mahabharata, we are in much later time. From Vyasa it passed on to the Suta family, but it was became the 'Mahabharata" of 100.000 shlokas or more in the hands of the Bhargava family. The last part, the Harivamsha is Bhagavata work, so it must have been strongly recast during the classical Gupta Age. The Puranas began as a work of 4000 shlokas, became soon divided into three besides the conservative original, and was also recast into multiplied shloka works. (The Ramayana was also original a non-Valmiki Bhargava work. He just features in the the first and last Kanda, but never in the main story, which is older. In the older parts Rama is a Indra bhakt, gradually changing into a Rudra-Shiva bhakt. But in the first and last Kanda under influence of Valmiki Bhargava, Rama is changed into a Vaishnava, the cult of the Bhargavas who served the Yadava kings in the west of India) I think that Vedic Hinduism is changed gradually and smoothly through the Sutras and Shastras and Stotra-Paddhatis into classical Hinduism. A help to reconstruct this developments are the epic works, but also the political changes with their priestly cults. About "Arya" We meet this work again and again with the Buddhists: they call their religion the Arya Dharma. The 4 principle truths of Buddha are called Chatvari Aryani Dharmani. Many monks used to calling themselves Arya. What about VishnuGupta the writer of ArthaShastra, he was called Arya Chanakya, the Kautilya. Buddha and the Mauryas are not in Vedic times, but also not the monks who dwell from India to all over East-and Middle-Asia. The Sanskrit play Mrcchakatikam which is in the classical age, somewhat near to Harsha Vikramaditya of 57 BC, has the name Aryaka still in an daily honorific way. ( the modern word in Eastern Hindi for grandfather 'aja' is from arya). And what to think about name of the great astronomer Aryabhata.