Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: Who are the Aryans - Who else but we [Re: venky] #12930 - 03/04/02 12:48 PM Edit Reply Quote

Dear Venky, Simply the comparative agreement of languages doesn't prove where a language originally comes from. Take for instance the case of the Kassites. The Elamites of southern Persian swamps mention their arrival before the Kassites ruled. This means that the Kassites entered Persia through the southern area. The cross-cultural developments must have been occurred somewhere close to Bactria, but more like in the steppes of Central-Asia, where the IE were at that moment in those areas semi-nomadic. In the third millennium one branch of IE moved towards the west, the other crossed later over the TienShan (Tukhara/Tushara). We meet the dynastic IE (Hittites, Mittani-Arya, Kassites, Hyksos) in the second millennium. if they are dynastic they must have had some time to settle in the new countries. We simply don't have any proof on any field, be it archeology or tectual, of Arya to have entered in the third or second millennium in the subcontinent. The DNA evidence points out that the people who lived in that area are exactly the same as now. There's totally no break of culture which you would naturally expect after intrusions. The Sarasvati-Sindhu Culture has many features with Vedic practice, like Yajnashalas, but even pictograms which have their parallels in Vedic scriptures, like Pashupata (not only Shiva was lord of the beasts, but also Vedic gods). The Bactrian Bronze Culture of the end of the thirdd and beginning of the second millennium which is Aryan, has the typical Vedic Tripura structure for the city. That culture is very much related to the Sindhu-Sarasvata, but is somewhat changing. This only can mean that the Bactrian and the SIndhu-Sarasvata are related Arya, but still in a differentiating process. This makes me remind of the dichotomy between the Asura worshippers, called Dasa/Daha (proto-Iranian) and the Deva worshippers (around Angra-Angira and Mainyu=Manyu Tapasa name of Aindra Vasishtha), called Paurava Arya. The Puru-Bharatas of Haryana-Panjab-Western UP fought against the Anu tribes: the leader of the Pauravas were Sahadeva and Somaka (Sahadevya) and their Anava adversary is Ishtashva. They are called in the Avesta Hushadaeva(Hushdiv), Haumaka and Vishtaspa. This last name is also found as the patron of Zarathushtra and ruler of Balkh-Bactria. If the forefathers of Somaka, like Sudasa mention the rivers Yamuna and the Parushni and are in Indian territories, how could they come from Central-Asia to India? And what about the the kings who ruled before the Bharatas, who most are linked to eastern India? Like Sagara, Arjuna Karttavirya, the Haihaya-Yadava, Pratardana and Divodasa of Kashi. Harishchandra, Bhagiratha, Yuvanashva, Muchukunda, Nabhaga, etc from Ayodhya? What about Marutta Avikshita of Vaishali Dynasty (Bihar)? All the chakravartin kings, or great conquerors are BEFORE Bharata Daushyanti, who is mentiond in Shatapatha Brahmana as the last great emperor. And all of them ruled In India from MadhyaDesha as centre. The Druhyus have left India many generations before Bharata Daushyanti. Before the Bharatas the supreme power was Ayodhya (from Sagara till Sudas Hamsamukha). Before Sagara the supreme powers were the Haihaya-Yadavas of central India, the Kashi kings like Divodasa II, Pratardana and Vatsa, from Ayodhya were Trishanku, Harishchandra, Rohitashva and Vasumanas, from Vaishali was Marutta Avikshita and The Zenda-Avesta, which is closer to Vedic and pre-Achaemenidian Persian mentions the areas from Balkh through Pakistan to HaptaHindush. Now why would the Bactrians call the Panjab the HaptaHindush the area of daeva worshippers where the 'heat' of AngraMainyush made them flee after they had to leave Airyana Vaizo their home, which became too cold. The movement is from the colder Himalayan mountains of Kashmir, Haryana and Uttar Pradesh towards the very hot Panjabi country. In the Panjab we meet clearly Anava tribes, like Kekayas and Madras. The Madras become Uttara Madras after leaving the Panjab, first called Bahika/Bahlika when in UP the main settlements were, afterwards transferred towards Afghanistan, like the Sarayu for Haroiyu and Harahvatish for Sarasvati. Now Uttara means not only "northern' but also 'later' in Sanskrit, just as 'purva' means 'eastern' but also 'earlier'! So the UttaraMadra (Madda-Medes?) are the Madra who left the Panjab where the Madra had there home. Note that the older name Sarasvati is found in its Prakritic form as Harasvati in Panini's Unadikosha (actually from older pre-Paninian tradition). The change of 's' into "h' which is a general feature of Irani is not met with in Mitanni Aryan language (satta for sapta) . As the Aryan are Vedic in West-Asia, the change must have occurred in more eastern areas. (Panjabi has changes of 's' to 'h') And before this period of great powers was the rule of Yauvanashva who expelled the Druhyus to Gandhara. From there they went to the north to establish many countries in foreign countries. There's the mentioning of the Vaishvamitras leaving to northern countries. What about Manu's son Narishyanta who is mentioned to have ruled in southeastern UP, but later on his descendants reappear as Shakas! about the danube Many names with don/dan are met with in Europe. Even the Irish people call themselves the children of Danu (Tuatha de Danaan), and what to say about the Danaos a Greek tribe. The Celts have a artefact known as the Gundestrup Cauldron on which is depicted Pashupati, just in the same way as the Sindhu-Sarasvati seal. The Celtic artefact is much younger than the Sindhu-Sarasvata seal from the subcontinent! Danu is also the name of Vrtra in Vedic tradition, who had a clash with Indra the son of Aditi. Aditi is the mother of Vivasvant and grandmother of Yama and Vaivasvata Manu, clearly connected with Himavat-Meru and Ayodhya. Now the name Yima in the Avesta and Ymir in the Edda is never met with any other tribe. The name Mannush for the forefather of the Germans is not met with in Greek, etc. For the most western IE myths and gods we have an Indian counterpart, which the some western IE traditions have and others have not. The original guttural sounds, which became palatized according to comparative IE phonology, are present in an Indian Himalayan language, the Bangani! So we have in India the remnants of an older IE period, which would be impossible according to the AIT theries. The originals of the Celts we meet in the Tushara/Tukhara in the TienShan or Sinqiang Uighur in China. The Goths and the Slavs are people who are only mentioned in the historical periods, not in pre-Christian period! The Croats are a southern Salv people, but till the end of the 19th century it was known as a Iranian speaking people. They are mentioned by the Achaemenian Persian as the Harahvata, coming from Harahvatish-Arachosia.. The Croats call themselves Hrvat and their country Hrvatska. So some (southern) Slavs have an Iranian identity. There are too many coincidences that understress the eastern home theory backed up by archeology, philology and modern sciences, like geography.