Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: Karma [Re: WiseForumFool] #13692 - 03/20/02 02:43 AM Edit Reply Quote

I'm not a follower of anybody. I just used Aravindo's translation, for it is close to the rootmeanings, as any Sanskritist can tell you. About the concept of Atman totally different from Brahman I disagree. It is used in Hindu scripture indeed: Aham Brahm�smi is the very indication. Or So'ham. The Upanishads as Ved�nta mention the Atamn-Brahman concept. I've posted elsewhere that it is said about Purusha in the Vedic literature that it is One, whether existent or non-existent. There's nothing Christian about Upanishads. And how you twist their meanings, it is a Hindu concept that man is both an energetic and a conscious aspect. The very word Jiiv�tman indicates that man is Jiiva=born (Pr�krtika-energetic) and Atman (Paurusheya-conscious). Isn't that a very Hindu? About temples and discussions, you're partly right. It is something which is done in the Bahis phenomenon (objective) for many people necessary of what is really very Antar (subjective), thus actually unnecessary. Manyfoldness is just the outcome of a creational phenomenon, for there's diversity which gives diverse experiences. The communication is meant for our Bahis Pravrtti which can be a help for our Antar Nivrtti. But whether you take the Vedas or Yajnas or Dev�laya or anything that is Bahis, it is just a symbolic way to let the Antar sympathetic snares tremble. About the body totally different from Purusha-Brahman, that is a more materialistic Gosh�la Maskarin (Bauddha texts) or Maskariputra (Jaina texts) concept of post-Ved�nta ages, which is not in the mainstream Hindu concepts. The Maskarins or Aajiivikas were more like determinists. Gosh�la lived in the same period as Mah�viira Jiina. (I've to study Aajiivika philosophy, so I can't say more than this general knowledge) Some additional remarks: In Chh�ndogya Upanishad in a conversation between Indra and Praj�pati, his teacher. Indra asked about Brahman. Praj�pati replied: the body is the self (�tman), the immortal, fearless Brahman! The dreaming, imagining mind is the Self, the immortal, fearless Brahman. The �tman (mostly translated as soul, but self is a better and my favorite translation), whole and serene in the state of deep sleep is the Self, the immortal, fearless Brahman. (Ch-Up VIII-7 to 15). The very word Pr�na is an indication that there's a close connection between the Spirit, Self and the Matter. In the older Vedic period it is used for Spirit or Self. Rishi Pippal�da says in a discussion with Rishi Kabandhin K�ty�yana in the Prashnopanishad that Praj�pati desirous of creating, meditated on is own essence, and created out of his own body a pair (mithuna), known as Rayi (the later Prakrti) or matter and Spirit or Pr�na ( the later Purusha). He says further that the world of concrete existence results indeed from the union of these two, called Matter and Spirit. So our body has Matter AND Spirit, according to Hindu Rishis of old.. Edited by Ishwa on 03/20/02 01:23 AM (server time).