Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: caste system does not have religious sanction [Re: krishna115] #13437 - 03/14/02 07:04 PM Edit Reply Quote

Dear Krishna 115, Varna was indeed based on guna=attributes (of personality) and karman = action,activity. But about a few characters I have these remarks: You said that Vasishtha is the son of a prostitute and that Vyasa is the son of a fishers woman. But according to my knowledge, Vasishtha is the grandson o Aditi and son of Varuna! No prostitutes involved. The mother of Mana Vasishtha is Urvashi, who certainly wasn't a prostitute. She was the wife of king Pururavas. If Mana was the son of Maitravaruna and Urvashi, and Pururavas was the husband of Urvashi, then Pururavas is equal to Maitravaruna. Besides, the fact that Ila the mother of Pururavas is referring to Mitravaruna as her father makes Pururavas also a Maitravaruna or offspring of Mitravaruna. Vasishtha. (The older name Mitr�varuna is later in the extended Puranas confused for later Mitr�Varun� in the dualis. The last means Mitra and Varuna, the first is just one person) Ila says in a conversation with Manu in the Puranas, when he asked her to follow him: Mitr�varunayor AMSHE JAATAASMI = I was born as a part of Mitravaruna (in dualis). Manu wanted an heir, and the text doesn't give us a clue whether Ila was an adopted daughter or the espouse of Manu. (quote from page 59 in Dates and Dynasties in Early India, by M.R. Smith, Motilal Banarsidass) So Urvashi was the legal wife of Pururavas Aila. She was an Apsaras. Nowhere are they denoted as prostitutes. I don't see in the Vedas anything prostitute-like about Apsarasa. Why should Urvashi, the Dawn in the RigVeda, to be the name of the Holy Ganga in the Mahabharata 12 if she would be a prostitute? About Satyavati She is described as a daughter of Uparichara Vasu, the Kuru-emperor of Chidi. His son is king Matsya. Now Matsya means fish, but is also an ancient kingdom in India. Satyavati was from Matsya desha, so she naturally is associated with that word. Would anyone from Vatsa Desha be a little cow? (Vatsa is a little cow) The problem with especially the Puranas, but also the Mahabharata and the Ramayana is that these works started with a few thousand shlokas. The works were growing towards many tens of thousands. So it changed in time, but also in content. Many older concepts were transformed into new jargon. Many older words were not understood and got different explanations which where somewhat different from the originals, as can be tested through older Vedic testimonies in the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishads and VedangaSutras. The Puranas were finally edited long after the Sutra period. About Aitareya Aitareya was not from a Shudra woman, because his very name Aitareya is a matronymicum: it means that he was the offspring of Itara. Now the only known Itara was Katyayani (a Brahmin gotra, Kati Vaishvamitras), who was the wife Vajasaneya Yajnavalkya. I understand the confusion, because Aitareya's personal name is Mahiid�sa. But the Dasa name is nothing unhonorific, and is also in the names of famous Arya kings, like Sudasa Paijavana, Sudasa Hamsamukha, Divodasa Vadhryashva, Divodasa Bhaimaseni, Divodasa Atithigva, Divodasa Bhaimarathi, Divodasa Saudeva, etc.