Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: The ATMAN [Re: vinaire] #14130 - 03/29/02 07:03 PM Edit Reply Quote

addition: SAGUNA BRAHMAN ����Pravrtti�.. increasing solidification (Adventure into Saguna) ---------->>> Param�nu (Subtle body) ��� (Prakrtic aspect) ������������Jiiv�nu (Solid body) Paramatman �����..��� (Purusha-Prakrti aspect) �������� Jivatman (Self-conscious creatures) ParamaChaitanya........................(Purusha aspect) ... ... .......... Chaitanya (what can be known) <<<-------- Nivrtti ��.. decreasing solidification (Adventure out of Saguna) ���� The First Relative Cause in Saguna is a dual Purusha and Prakrti interacting and giving a Second Relative Cause as triade, due to the (Tri)gunas or attributes inherent in both aspects being manifested. (Though ParamaChaitanya and Param�tman are very close) ParamaChaitanya is the Chit ("everything knowable"). The Purusha is here relative Sattva-guna. Param�tman is the Ananda ('blissful delight"). Purusha and Prakrti fused are relative Rajo-guna. Param�nu is the Sat ("energetic reality"). Prakrti is here relative Tamo-guna. Note: If some want only the dual pair to be involved it's ok with me. It sounds very revolutionary of me to have besides the self-conscious ones as a fusion of atman deha and non-self-conscious things as only deha a third aspect as without body (object) and self-reflection (subject). The (Yoga) traditions support this with concepts like: drasht�.........................darshana.............................drshya seer (subject)...............seeing (verb).......................what can be seen (object) kart� (doer)...................karana (doing)....................k�rya (deed) The only problem is how we can imagine an increasing 'solidification' of bodiless non-self reflectional consciousness: is it something like increasing from a relative complete cause-knowingness to a relative partial effect-knowingness? (lack of a right word) Haha, or is this to much hair-splitting (,yet)? Anyway, for this moment it would suffice to give Subtle Body the Sanskrit name of Param�nu, and existing word, and Solid Body the name of Jiiv�nu, which is mine. Actually it is called Sth�la, combined with Bh�ta. Thus the words ParamaBh�ta.....Sth�laBh�ta may also be used. I have used Jiiva anu, because jiiva gives the energetic idea and anu the molecular form. In Jiiva atman we see that creatures are self-conscious and energetic. Some time we'll realize the closeness of energy and consciousness. Then the step towards re-solving both to non-duality is very small. Another point is that in everything that is Saguna we have a minute reflection of the immense Nirguna and Para. Every tamas (let's say 'bad or useless') implies an opposite or supplementary rajas (let's say 'good or useful') and vice versa. Resolving it into sattva (balance or use) we're closer to nirguna (non-use). Edited by Ishwa on 03/29/02 04:36 PM (server time).