Ishwa helper Reged: 03/03/02 Posts: 553

Re: The ATMAN [Re: vinaire] #14074 - 03/28/02 03:54 AM Edit Reply Quote

Beyond Atman would be Paratman. But Paramatman is Supreme Atman as you rightly did observed. In a sense beyond can be applied to, because the Parama state is Nirguna and ParaBrahman, but it is called the Atman is when involved in the Saguna. And it is Jiivatman when the Jiiva and Atman fuse to give creatures. About Jiiva, it is actually not only the body alive (rajas), but also the dead body (tamas). But because life is more concentrated upon the alive aspect is more given attention. Jiiva is than everything which is energetic (in that sense alive or lively). The Tamas energetic part is also the anti-matter as Rajas is matter. Your explanation of Jiivatman is nearly right. The body is not that which deprives us of freedom, for it was the freedom of (play of) our NirgunAtman to become a SagunAtman. It is the the 'thought' of seeing the Saguna as Absolute and Unchanging which deprives us from Absoluteness=Freedom. Both the Jiiva and the Atman are aspects of the Saguna-Brahman (having thus Gunas). Atman has attributes (called Dharman) when it stays (un)consciously in the reincarnation cycle in the Pravrtti. Only as Paramatman the Sagunatman ceases to be with Guna.